(Here at the Willow Creek Global Leadership Summit praying for God to give me new insight to help me in leading with Operation Christmas Child. To learn more about OCC
click here...)
One-on-One Interview with Bill Hybels & T.D. Jakes
Bill: I’m so
glad you agreed to do this interview.
These are very interesting days we’re living in. Time Magazine called you the most
effective preacher in our country right now. Most of our audience probably wouldn’t know your ministry
has extended to publishing, record producing, motion pictures, investments,
philanthropy, and a new daily TV talk show. From a leadership perspective this fills my mind with all
kinds of questions. Conventional leadership wisdom says leaders should focus
but you don’t seem to buy that.
TD: We buy into titles and put a period where God would put
a comma. God put a seed in us and
gave us time to produce what was in the seed. If you nurture what’s in you and don’t limit yourself by job
descriptions out of the seed can come a forest. Find the common thing in the
diverse interests—for me it was being called to communicate. For me, He opened my mouth to
speak. Then you lead from what you
have in common.
Bill: You say
in your book, “Rip off the lid of your abilities” is that what you are driving
at?
TD: Sometimes the frustration of burnout is really the
frustration of not being challenged. If the day doesn’t require of you
something beyond what you did yesterday you’re not being challenged.
What’s amazing is the things along the way help you learn
who you are. The haters are just
an instrument to sometimes educate you.
Sometimes, like fish, you have to eat the meat and throw away the bones. God didn’t call you to change their
minds, you just have to keep moving forward.
Bill: You
started writing books, then moved to records and a label, and now into motion
pictures.
TD: Jesus
taught people through parables and we use story to teach without assaulting
people. There are more people at
the theater on Friday night than there are in the sanctuary on Sunday
morning. The Great Commissions was
about us going into the world.
Bill: You’re
still pastoring, still writing, -- how far is your head really in that game?
TD: I have 350
employees so it’s not all me. You are no greater than the people you put around
you. You can find people who have
the skill set to fulfill your dream…if you can fulfill your own dream it’s much
too small. You’re not great unless
you can be around great people and not being intimidated. Some of us never talk to people who
aren’t like us and we’re limited to a proud perspective when we have a global
God.
Bill: The list of what you’re leading just keeps
growing. How do you manage this in
your mind?
TD: At the end of every day I will never finish everything I
need to do. There’s always something I will miss but I never let it be the same
thing twice. Don’t deplete one
area. If you have to hold it to
have it then you have the wrong people in place.
Bill: God seems
to be increasing your capacity.
One time when we were backstage you apologized for a talk and said you
were exhausted. What
happened? Did you drop some things
or did team members let you down?
TD: Anytime you
take on new things it takes a while to learn to manage it. You caught me in one of those
times. Jesus got tired. But you don’t want to stay tired. You
want to figure it out. I have to
restructure to be able to manage—may need more staff. It’s not where we want to go that’s our problem; it’s what
you are willing to leave behind in order to get there. Sometimes we’re trying to “save bread”
that was meant to spoil. God did
not mean for you to save yesterday’s vision. How can God give you today’s bread when you are busy holding
on to yesterday’s bread? Sometimes
the worms are a blessing.
Bill: You are
starting a daily TV talk show.
Explain the vision behind that.
TD: I’ve been on Dr. Phil’s show and it fed a hunger and
need for people who weren’t church people and need direction and if we can
bring it to them in a way that’s palatable they can receive it. I want to talk about politics, health,
race relationships, and other issues.
People are nervous and worried and to be able to be in their house every
day is like Joseph being in Egypt.
Jesus did more walking the streets and I want the body of Christ to pray
for me and support it.
Bill: Every
time I hear you preach my soul is lifted and I thought who better to lift the
human spirit than you. I’m on your
side. About 15 years ago we were
both invited to a meeting where we spent a day trying to figure out racial
reconciliation. I see where we are
15 years later and in some ways it feels worse. What part of that weight do you carry as you lead these
ventures:
TD: We
physically get a fever or have pain is to let us know there is a problem. As horrendous as the issues are in our
country right now in some ways they are a blessing like pain that draws our
attention to the issues. Anything
you ignore long enough will show up in a symptom that hurts you so it can help
you. It’s a lot more complex than
who likes who. Through a series of
issues pockets of infection have developed and some people have been left out
of the strategy of success—poor whites, underserved blacks and underserved browns. Our American dream has become their American
nightmare. We do have a racial
problem but when people don’t have opportunity they swell and can’t be
ignored. I want to deal with
things like criminal injustice.
Because a few African-Americans are doing well doesn’t mean there is
opportunity for all. More
African-Americans may be incarcerated because more are arrested and couldn’t
afford good lawyers. The swelling
we’re having now is indicative we’ve left people behind who refuse to be
ignored. We have not created a
strategy that allows the underserved to be empowered.
Bill: We see
ethnic hatred all around the world.
We are tempted to mistrust those who are different. How do you address those conflicts in
other areas of the world.
TD: It’s a war
we don’t have a strategy to win.
If we don’t come up with a worldwide plan to attack hunger, poverty,
disease, we will continue to see these fevers and swelling. We need to come out of our comfort zone
and deny it. Pharisees asked Jesus
“Who is my neighbor?” and the Good
Samaritan was one who helped a person who was different. When you start to recognize the
brotherhood of men then God will open the windows of heaven to bless you.
Bill: Is this
fixable without faith.
TD: I don’t think so, yet I think the church has done the
worse job. Yet we have the
faith. Faith without works is
dead. We need a strategy and we
need to be intentional.
Bill: Recently you said you’re fired up about a new book
called “The Second Wind”
TD: I’m passionate about the purpose of the book. It’s about imagining a new future for
yourself—not waiting for someone to rescue you but to become creative and birth
businesses on a small scale. These
are pragmatic steps to become entrepreneurial. We are like God when we create—we were created by a creative
God to be creative. This is
a clarion call back to being fruitful and not allowing yourself to be so sold
out to a job that you can’t be creative.
If you give someone a strategy it’s better than giving them a
check. If you do church the way
your fathers did, you’ll miss your calling. Joshua didn’t ‘do Moses’.
Bill: You have
an audience of several hundred thousand people. As we wrap this up, can you give a challenge to those who
need a lift.
TD: There is
not one living thing on this earth in which God did not put a seed within
itself. You are gifted with
multiple gifts. The real question
for the second half of your life is “What are you gonna do with what God gave
you?” It only works when you use
it. He didn’t give it to you to
hide it. God has given you more than
your life shows, than your occupation has demanded. I want to be a bee that drops some fresh pollen on you and
makes you fruitful again—you are more than what they call you or pay you. I don’t want you to die wondering what
it would have been like if you lived life to the fullest. If you can think the impossible, the
invisible, the intangible you can reach the unfathomable. Unlock the cage that holds your mind back
from seeing what God has given you.
